those that live under the bridge
Posted on October 1st, 2009 in general
It took a while, but the concern trolls and the regular trolls have come out to play. People, please read the comments policy before you waste your time posting your fat hating rhetoric (which, by the way, includes everything along the lines of “Oh but what about your HEALLLLLLTH”). These sorts of comments are not going to see the light of day around here. My blog, my rules. Go do some actual research, read some actual studies and then if you want, come back here and be ready to engage in some rational open minded discussion and THEN you will be allowed to play in my sandbox. If you don’t like that, too bad. As I said, my blog, my rules.
Perhaps you could suggest some studies and research for people to read? Otherwise people are probably just going to read the average rubbish in the media.
I don’t think a dictatorship is the best way to get your point across though, it just means all you’ll have displayed here is a very one sided discussion.
Anyway, it’s your blog, but it’s not just your cause.
Hi Rob – I don’t have an issue with constructive open minded discussion and I don’t mind people disagreeing, you might have gathered that by the fact I approved all the comments to-ing and fro-ing about the cyclist comments. What I won’t tolerate is people coming to my blog and telling me I am a fat ass who can’t fit through a doorway and who obviously sits around eating crap all day long yada yada yada. If someone has genuine questions I am more than happy to enter into a discussion with them and then they are still free to disagree with me but I will not tolerate verbal abuse or fat hatred here. I think you will find that the vast majority of fat acceptance blogs have a similar comments policy to mine.
And yes, I am working on some posts about the studies I keep referring to. Time just gets away from me, what with studying, having two kids and a husband, house renovations and generally having a life ; ) But they are coming (the posts that is)!
Hi there, I believe this is my first time commenting.
Trolls are terrible. :: shakes head ::
Especially when they have been good commenters in the past. IDK if that’s what happened; it’s happened to me before.
And I don’t mean to step out of bounds, but, @ Rob:
There’s not a real need for someone who has a blog all about FA to give a “platform” to “the other side.” And I think it’s perfectly reasonable, in a forum that is full of educational stuff and with links to all over the place, to expect people with questions to, you know, take the initiative and go out and look for stuff their own selves if they *actually* have questions and don’t just feel like being bullies. Most folks can sift through the rubbish. It’s not that difficult to do a google search.
BTW, I love the way this place looks! Purple is my favorite color.
In response to Rob and his assertion about a comments policy equaling a dictatorship… so freakin’ what? I’d rather have a good conversation with someone prepared to debate honestly, rather than skim through a dozen posts of trolly crap. This is a blog, not a country. Moderation is not censorship, and no one’s gonna throw people into a gulag.
And as I’ve seen expressed in other places, why is it that the oppressed party (person of color, gay, fat, etc etc) absolutely HAS to take the moral high road and be open and nicey-nice-nice to everyone, no matter how lousy they’re being? And if they refuse to take the moral high road and get upset, cranky, and otherwise indigant, that they’re being bad and holding back the movement? That’s bunk. Not every blog is going to be a hand-holdy experience, and no one is obligated to provide that. There have to be spaces where abusive voices aren’t tolerated.
(I, too, like the overall purpleness of the site.
)
Rob,
The evidence for scepticism about the innate health status of fatness is all around.
If you are not even asking any questions about it, it’s because you have already bought the construct that fat is unhealthy.
This construct is just that, and is designed wholly to validate only it’s own premise(fat=unhealth) it can do nothing else.
I hope Bri will forgive me for using a well worn analogy, but it’s like a Christian who believes that you must be with god, if you are not, you must be with satan. A person like this doesn’t get atheism or agnosticism, it cannot fit into their construct which is designed only to validate belief in god.
This is how it is with weight. We have all been inducted into believing certain things about fatness.
Freeing ourselves includes science, but truly, science as great as it is, cannot replace human observation and judgement, if it does, our capacities in these areas will atrophy.
You have to understand that you assumptions are almost wholly constructed and biased in themselves, this is the only way the obesity ideology can survive, it cannot on it’s own merits.
If you merely question received wisdom in a balanced manner, you’ll be surprised how much of it doesn’t really hold water.
Thing is, there are too many places on the Internet, where you can read “the other side” like the one that’s not allowed to comment here. I, for one, very much appreciate the safe space – not dictatorship, as genuine questions, doubts and polite discussion are welcome – but a safe space, where one doesn’t have to worry, that it’ll be necessary to plow through heaps after heaps of offending comments. It’s no dictatorship to put a lock on your door and only let those in, who promise to behave in a civilised way…
The “other side” has the whole damn spectrum of the media over the world constantly pounding at us with its beliefs (well, let’s be honest, not beliefs, they damn well know better, with the lies that they find it profitable to propagate.) Those who hate us may do so out of ignorance & their own low self-esteem, but the majority of the attacks are from those who believe the propaganda &/or those who are paid well to disseminate it. There are many, MANY billions of dollars at stake in the United States alone if too many people believe that they are okay as they are & accept their natural bodies & give up all the attempts to be what they are not. Believe me, the entire WORLD is the forum of the anti-fat crowd; we are entitled to a few small places of own our to tell the truth & explode myths & it is not too much to ask that we not be ridiculed, insulted, belittled, & that attempts not be made to shout us down in our own spaces.
My comment regarding a dictatorship and open minded discussion was sparked by Bri saying that questions like “What about your health?” will not be allowed. That seems to contradict the idea of open minded discussion.
I see that question as being fairly genuine, and it’s probably the main concern that ALL people have, not just non-fat people. I know what the answer is – you can be healthy or unhealthy at ANY weight, and your weight does not necessarily dictate your health – but not everyone else actually realises that, and therefore it IS a genuine question.
The reason I suggested that Bri provide some links to studies and research was as much to help fat people as it was to help everyone else who doesn’t understand anything other than the research we see in mainstream media. Yes people should take their own inititiave, but here’s your chance to ensure people are reading the correct unbiased studies that you want them to, and actually have an impact.
I’d like to know where the educational stuff and links to other info is that you mention? All I see is links to other blogs and opinions – nothing wrong with that, but I don’t see anything that suggests a link to quality research and studies on fat v. health.
Nice assumption. I have plenty of questions to ask, I certainly don’t believe anything I read in mainstream media without questioning it first, but if someone else isn’t allowed to ask the simple question “What about your health?” then what is the point of them delving any deeper?
I don’t see Bri’s statement as “not allowing” to ask such questions at all – remember the person, who asked about health in the thread that was later on turned into a conversation about cyclists? Somehow she didn’t get kicked out.
I rather think it’s about hateful people, who don’t ask, but STATE – you’re fat, disgusting, and above all, what about your health, you lard sack?
Elaina: Thanks for commenting! You would never guess purple is my favorite color, would you? lol. And I actually have glasses the same as the ones on the illustration at the top, after all, she IS based on me!
Lampdevil: Yay for lovers of purple!
Rob: I am more than happy to enter into a rational discussin with someone who asks considered and genuine questions regarding health and fat. I am not happy to enter into dicussion with(or even approve the comments of) those who have already made up their mind that fat is always unhealthy and are obviously not willing to consider any other perspective.
Rob,
My comment regarding a dictatorship and open minded discussion was sparked by Bri saying that questions like “What about your health?” will not be allowed.
Her comments were directed both at trolls and concern trolling, she even linked to definitions which if you had read, you might have realised that they do not intend to have a genuine exchange of views but frame their hositily in terms of concern for people’s health.
Nice assumption
I meant ‘you’ in reference to ‘people’ here;
Perhaps you could suggest some studies and research for people to read?
It was not specific to you personally, unless it applied to you personally.
You also did not refer to my explanation as to why the way you are framing your views can only validate your premise as it is formed solely on it’s own terms and doesn’t allow any room for scepticism.
As for fat people, we are no more or less likely to believe the media anymore than you, unless you consider yourself to be uniquely gifted in detecting BS.
We also have the added bonus of actually experiencing being fat, and therefore do not need research to tell us what we are experiencing on a second by second basis, or whether we are or are not in hospital having heart attacks or whatever.
If we are not unhealthy by whatever definition you choose to use, then we cannot pretend to be so.
Stating that we are not inherently unhealthy is based on fact, if you or anyone else can prove that we are all wrong, then you prove it.
If I assert something as a scientific fact and reality doesn’t back that up, I will be the first to be curious about it myself. I don’t expect those who I may direct my assertions at to prove anything, why should they because they point out that the facts don’t tally with my assertions? I am responsible for proving my own assertions.
Science is not a substitute for ‘the voice of god’, it is fact, or it is nothing. Bandying around this or that ’scientific paper’ to prove some assertion or belief is not good enough in the face of facts that evidently contravene that assertion.
I hope you can see what I’m doing here, I’m responding to what you are saying, this is a discussion, we are having an exchange of views, don’t assume that means agreement with you.
May I suggest a few books: Body Wars, Making Peace with Women’s Bodies – An Activist’s Guide by Margo Maine
Health at Every Size by Linda Bacon
The Body Project, An Intimate History of American Girls by Joan Jacobs Brumberg.
Body Wars contains a lot of good information as well as citations and recommendations for other books confirming her statements.